5 sigma Higgs !!!

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gilgamorph
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Re: 5 sigma Higgs !!!

Post by gilgamorph » Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:15 pm

Cryogenic123 wrote:
Thats not correct!. boson is a particle that is with a "B" and not a "b". How else can you explain the nomenclature of "boson"? It was derived from the Bose-Einstein condensate theory.
The EU scientific community is deliberately playing a racist role in not mentioning this as a Boson. they want to credit "their own" Peter Higgs.
Shame on these so called scientists & media, bare-faced liars.
You Sir are being deeply unreasonable and provocative.
To be fair, DC, Cryo is only being moderately unreasonable. He should be crediting the laziness of particle physicists which is probably the largest factor in a using "boson" .

Kasuha wrote:
Higgs boson is a boson particle named after Peter Higgs, one of people who introduced the particle into Standard Model. It is a boson, it is not named after Mr. Bose.
Similarly there are W boson or Z boson, not W-Boson or Z-Boson.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boson
But the very link he posted is to "Boson", not"boson" and it begins:
In particle physics, bosons are particles that are governed by Bose–Einstein statistics. There is a deep relationship between this property and integer spin (s = 0, 1, 2 etc.) The name boson was coined by Paul Dirac commemorative of the contribution of Indian physicist Satyendra Nath Bose,along with Albert Einstein, in the formation of Bose–Einstein statistics—the governing theory in this case. Examples of bosons include fundamental particles (Higgs boson and the four gauge bosons of the Standard Model, and the hypothetical graviton of quantum gravity); composite particles (mesons, stable nuclei of even mass number, e.g., deuterium, helium-4, lead-208); and quasiparticles (Cooper pairs)

But Cryo should note that "boson" is used throughout the literature. When discussing the Bose-Einstein statistics the capitalization is always used, but in the context of those statistics, a boson is a self-evident construct, and while S.N.Bose should be rightly creditted for his pioneering work, he can not take credit for every speculative use of the concept of a "boson" in theories he had no knowledge of at the time, such as the Higg's mechanism or Cooper pairs. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pa ... statistics for an extensive list of hypothetical bosons and composite bosons(mesons) which S.N.B. can not take credit for. Hence "boson".

However his assumption of a racist intent is just silly. There certainly must be racists among physicists as there are outlyers in any population, but I think the success of the international collaborations at CERN make self-evident the fact that physicists are a particularly tolerant group (as long as you don't expect tolerance of bad physics!)

*edited spelling*
Last edited by gilgamorph on Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

gilgamorph
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Re: 5 sigma Higgs !!!

Post by gilgamorph » Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:15 pm

*edit* - removed duplicate post. sorry.
Last edited by gilgamorph on Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Kasuha
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Re: 5 sigma Higgs !!!

Post by Kasuha » Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:44 pm

I respect your enthusiasm but I don't share it. I don't think calling it Higgs-Bose-Einstein-Newton-Archimedon is a good idea (and I bet I'm still skipping quite a few people who participated). I'm ok with Higgs.

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Re: 5 sigma Higgs !!!

Post by chelle » Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:51 pm

Bose is still up there when talking about the Higgs-boson, there are some others that go missing:

"In particle physics, the Higgs mechanism (also called the Brout–Englert–Higgs mechanism, Englert–Brout–Higgs–Guralnik–Hagen–Kibble mechanism, and Anderson–Higgs mechanism) is the process that gives mass to elementary particles." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_mechanism

Anyway what's in a name.
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Re: 5 sigma Higgs !!!

Post by chriwi » Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:00 am

I think you are overdoing here with your blame. The work of Mr Bose is already honored enough by calling a whole group of particles boson-particles or bosons. In my opinoin Bose has nothing to do with the later postulation an discovery of the Higgs-particle what happens to be a member of the group boson-particles (introduced by Mr Bose and others) and thereby is called Higgs-boson. Boson here is only a noun saying that this particle is a member of the group boson-particles and nouns in english are spelled with not capital letters in the beginning unlike in other languages like German where it would sure spelled as Higgs-Boson.
I would even say: spelling it not capital gives evenb more honor to Mr Bose since the thing named after him became a noun of ordinary language with ordinary rules to spell it, this happens only fundamental accepted things. I think the Higgs boson particle still has a way to go to be so fundamental to everyone that it would be acceppeted to spell it as just "a higgs" in ordinary language.
bye

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Re: 5 sigma Higgs !!!

Post by Cryogenic123 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:01 pm

Hi Portal guru,
I dont mean to be unreasonable or provocative. But I do intend to expose of the falsifying information that is being actively propogated. I, as a scientist, should not be and will not be racist. For me, science is not a particular religions/race/tribes/etc. etc. monopoly. It was the integrity of Sir Aurthur Eddington when he endorsed the theory of Einstein do we know the significance of his works.
But this kind of integrity is totally missing in the western scientiest's and media's cunning ploys.
Do keep in mind, its the truth that prevails and it will be a fall from grace if these CERN guys dont mend their ways.

Please do respond and prove me wrong. I accpet the challenge openly & will stand corrected if proved wrong.

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Re: 5 sigma Higgs !!!

Post by chriwi » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:06 pm

If you accept the challenge and dont like to be unreasonable so please consider to comment on my considerations of English grammer and spelling rules, what in my eyes prove that it is an honor for Bose to spell boson without a capital B instead of beliving its not giving the necessary respect to that person.

Higgs and Einstein or "Einstein Bose condensate" will only be found in an enceclopedia

"boson" inseted is a word found in a dictionary as well as in an enceclopedia

so which of the 4 obviously is more important?
bye

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Re: 5 sigma Higgs !!!

Post by DCWhitworth » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:41 pm

Cryogenic123 wrote: Please do respond and prove me wrong. I accpet the challenge openly & will stand corrected if proved wrong.
Prove you wrong ? How ? You haven't presented any facts. You say you are a scientist, well be scientific and present us with some facts to back your assertions.

The only thing you have presented us with is the notion that spelling boson with a small B is a racist attempt to belittle Satyendra Nath Bose. I concur with the other posters here suggesting that actually having is spelt with a small B is a sign of greater respect and widespread acceptance.

The road you are going down is a very dangerous one. Racism (in any form) is definitely a very real thing and no one should lightly ignore accusations of it nor idly claim they are 100% free from prejudice.

But to throw around unfounded accusation of a western racist conspiracy between scientists and media to ignore the achievements of non-western scientists only serves to play into the hands of those who would be actively racist by causing the neutral/anti-racist people to take other accusation of racism less seriously.

If you've got serious facts backing your accusations then let us hear then but you need something a little more than a single letter being the wrong size to create a massive conspiracy.
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Re: 5 sigma Higgs !!!

Post by Harbles » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:48 am

Meanwhile, A science journalist, a science museum curator, a film maker and three scientists had a Google Plus hangout today to talk about the recent findings at CERN's LHC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhDHch7 ... r_embedded

Streamed live on Jul 19, 2012 by CERNPeople

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Re: 5 sigma Higgs !!!

Post by Harbles » Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:02 am

Also The STS-134 Astronaut Crew visited CERN on Wednesday.

"On 16 May 2011, the space shuttle Endeavour took off for the last time from Cape Canaveral in Florida with six astronauts on board. Their mission (code-named STS-134) was to install the Alpha Magnetic Spectrometer (AMS), the dark matter and antimatter detector designed at CERN, on the International Space Station. Since then, AMS has been sending data to CERN from space.

In this lecture, the six AMS astronauts will present the STS-134 mission."

http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1464066

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Re: 5 sigma Higgs !!!

Post by CharmQuark » Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:22 pm

Pleased to see things have been resolved!
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Re: 5 sigma Higgs !!!

Post by Cryogenic123 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:40 am

But to throw around unfounded accusation of a western racist conspiracy between scientists and media to ignore the achievements of non-western scientists only serves to play into the hands of those who would be actively racist by causing the neutral/anti-racist people to take other accusation of racism less seriously.

If you've got serious facts backing your accusations then let us hear then but you need something a little more than a single letter being the wrong size to create a massive conspiracy.


Portal Guru, If you need evidence then you need to just look for any news on the internet and you will notice the dead silence on Bose's contribution. Dont you notice the deliberate attempt to avoid any reference to the non-western scientists? And if a smal and capital letter is being a topic , well then call it higgs boson particle, and not Higgs boson particle. lets start to call all names by their small letter. Lets change the tules of english language. May be you will agree to this.

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Re: 5 sigma Higgs !!!

Post by chriwi » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:42 pm

Higgs is a name and thereby spelled capital, bosun is already a thing and thereby spelled with a small "b".
I only hope that Higgs ever gets the same credit like Bose that the will call this particle just a higgs with small "h" insted of Higgs boson, I guess thats still a long way to go, but I insist that the small letter gives more credit to the person than the capital letter.
By the way a "Higgs boson particle" is bullshit, because a boson is already a particle if it was not like this a "boson" had to be called a "Bose particle" and then the higgs in return would be a "Higgs Bose particle" without changing anything in Enlish language. Anythng else is just not correct.

Please one native english speaker confirm that for me.
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DCWhitworth
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Re: 5 sigma Higgs !!!

Post by DCWhitworth » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:32 pm

chriwi wrote:Higgs is a name and thereby spelled capital, bosun is already a thing and thereby spelled with a small "b".
I only hope that Higgs ever gets the same credit like Bose that the will call this particle just a higgs with small "h" insted of Higgs boson, I guess thats still a long way to go, but I insist that the small letter gives more credit to the person than the capital letter.
By the way a "Higgs boson particle" is bullshit, because a boson is already a particle if it was not like this a "boson" had to be called a "Bose particle" and then the higgs in return would be a "Higgs Bose particle" without changing anything in Enlish language. Anythng else is just not correct.

Please one native english speaker confirm that for me.
That all sounds correct to me. In English the basic rule is names of people and places are spelt with a capital letter. Sometimes a name passes into common use as a noun or verb in its own right, e.g. To hoover is now acceptable despite the fact that it is derived from Hoover, a brand of vacuum cleaner. To Google is going the same way.

These rules hold true in many languages. Unlike some other languages (e.g. German) in English, names of objects are NOT given a capital letter normally. So a boson would not be spelt with a capital since it is an object and not someone's name. If it was a Bose particle then it would be spelt with a capital since Bose is a name. Hence Higgs boson. Higgs has a capital as a name of a person, boson does not because it isn't. Yes it is derived from a name but it isn't one.

On the other hand English is a very flexible and widespread language with many variations (both official and less so), also there is no central authority overseeing usage (although the Oxford English dictionary carries great weight) so whilst there are plenty of rules, there are also plenty of exceptions.
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Re: 5 sigma Higgs !!!

Post by chelle » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:52 pm

Cryogenic123,

Imagine that we named 'whisky' after a person, who would start to talk about that person, when someone (Higgs) comes up with a new type of whisky. Here it is roughly the same, the Higgs boson is a new type of boson, that's all.
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