this place has gotten quiet

Anything unrelated to the LHC
draph91
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this place has gotten quiet

Post by draph91 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:36 am

kinda sad really
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chelle
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Re: this place has gotten quiet

Post by chelle » Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:36 am

draph91 wrote:kinda sad really
It's because of the omertà in science. Some questions aren't appreciated within the community that could jeopardise the LHC, and so if anyone would like to keep his/her credibility they keep their mouth closed. Ultra-High-Energy cosmic rays being Iron nuclei and not protons with 100.000 the energy of those of the LHC isn't talked about, probably because public opinion is kept better at ease with the huge number instead of 50 or 500. High frequency and a combustion argument is being censored away. It's like the Panama papers everyone just strolls along, science these days is about huge billion euro/dollar projects funded by governments, the last thing you want is the public being difficult. If you do you're anti-science, there's a catch-22 that kills criticism by serious people, so everyone just moves along.
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chelle
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Re: this place has gotten quiet

Post by chelle » Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:16 pm

I just saw this article on the dangers of sugar, goes to show how the 'industry' works:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016 ... ohn-yudkin

"The sugar conspiracy

In 1972, a British scientist sounded the alarm that sugar – and not fat – was the greatest danger to our health. But his findings were ridiculed and his reputation ruined. How did the world’s top nutrition scientists get it so wrong for so long?"


Same goes for the LHC, always bitching about Black Holes while it is the high frequency and density that is the real danger, along with ignoring the facts about UHECRs.

Sugar: The Bitter Truth - https://youtu.be/dBnniua6-oM
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draph91
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Re: this place has gotten quiet

Post by draph91 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:04 pm

chelle wrote:I just saw this article on the dangers of sugar, goes to show how the 'industry' works:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016 ... ohn-yudkin

"The sugar conspiracy

In 1972, a British scientist sounded the alarm that sugar – and not fat – was the greatest danger to our health. But his findings were ridiculed and his reputation ruined. How did the world’s top nutrition scientists get it so wrong for so long?"


Same goes for the LHC, always bitching about Black Holes while it is the high frequency and density that is the real danger, along with ignoring the facts about UHECRs.

Sugar: The Bitter Truth - https://youtu.be/dBnniua6-oM
I see, what do you mean by it is the high frequency and density that is the real danger if you don't mind explaining?
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chelle
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Re: this place has gotten quiet

Post by chelle » Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:34 pm

draph91 wrote:I see, what do you mean by it is the high frequency and density that is the real danger if you don't mind explaining?
Oh, it is what I already mentioned here plenty of times:
In nature there are about a thousand Cosmic-ray collisions of a few GeV’s (1 GeV= 10^9 electron Volt) per second per m^2. In LHC it are about one 1 billion per second per cm^2. That’s 1.000.000 times more for an area which is 10.000 smaller, it is a density & frequency difference of 10 billion and unique in the Universe.

Image

This year we humans have even generated collisions on this planet, that were an other 1000 times more intense, record energies of 13 TeV (1 TeV= 10^12 eV). These collisions are in nature of course less frequent per m^2 while the density & frequency at the LHC of 10 billion per cm^2 was maintained.

And we know now that there is a Higgs Field, and that Gravity Waves can travel through the Space Time Medium. So what we have is a Medium (The Vacuum) that can transmit signals.

What we are doing at the LHC is smashing massive particles against each other, these can produce ripples in that Medium. Once result of this is the Higgs Boson, you could see it as a wave breaking. The question is are there other smaler undetectable waves … and if so if you start doing lots of collisions than these could add up. Think of how you can break a glass of wine with sound after some time, or how you can combust gas in a car by using an intense ignition. One spark or a short tone won't have any effect but a high frequency and density at on place adds up, and you could start shaking Atoms apart that surround the collision area, think of lighting a fire with rubbing a stick.

Now look at the graph and see the difference of intensity between the LHC and cosmic rays in nature, and thing of lighting a fire by rubbing sticks for a longer period (frequency) and prolonged pressure (density).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O43ZnoW5BLo

Image
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draph91
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Re: this place has gotten quiet

Post by draph91 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:10 pm

chelle wrote:
draph91 wrote:I see, what do you mean by it is the high frequency and density that is the real danger if you don't mind explaining?
Oh, it is what I already mentioned here plenty of times:
In nature there are about a thousand Cosmic-ray collisions of a few GeV’s (1 GeV= 10^9 electron Volt) per second per m^2. In LHC it are about one 1 billion per second per cm^2. That’s 1.000.000 times more for an area which is 10.000 smaller, it is a density & frequency difference of 10 billion and unique in the Universe.

Image

This year we humans have even generated collisions on this planet, that were an other 1000 times more intense, record energies of 13 TeV (1 TeV= 10^12 eV). These collisions are in nature of course less frequent per m^2 while the density & frequency at the LHC of 10 billion per cm^2 was maintained.

And we know now that there is a Higgs Field, and that Gravity Waves can travel through the Space Time Medium. So what we have is a Medium (The Vacuum) that can transmit signals.

What we are doing at the LHC is smashing massive particles against each other, these can produce ripples in that Medium. Once result of this is the Higgs Boson, you could see it as a wave breaking. The question is are there other smaler undetectable waves … and if so if you start doing lots of collisions than these could add up. Think of how you can break a glass of wine with sound after some time, or how you can combust gas in a car by using an intense ignition. One spark or a short tone won't have any effect but a high frequency and density at on place adds up, and you could start shaking Atoms apart that surround the collision area, think of lighting a fire with rubbing a stick.

Now look at the graph and see the difference of intensity between the LHC and cosmic rays in nature, and thing of lighting a fire by rubbing sticks for a longer period (frequency) and prolonged pressure (density).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O43ZnoW5BLo

Image
I see and what would this result in
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chelle
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Re: this place has gotten quiet

Post by chelle » Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:00 pm

draph91 wrote:I see and what would this result in
In a chain reaction (forest fire) or not.

One tree that combusts produces enough heat to make its neighbour to light up. But if the trees are far enough positioned in relation to the heat produced, than the fire won't be passed on, the same goes for the gas explosion in a car.

For a nuclear bomb the energy that is released comes from the fission or fusion of Atoms, like here for an Hydrogen bomb:

Image

See that's only a 'small' reaction/conversion that produces already a lot of energy, now let's imagine that a series of heavier Copper atoms (Cu) that surround the collision spot (a copper wire), are suddenly shaken apart and are ALL converted as a whole at once, that's a far more intense conversion, that might set off a chain reaction.

Image

Note, I'm not saying that this will happen or is even possible, but it is something that should be in the Safety report. It is a very logic chain of thoughts and one of the oldest tricks in the book, therefor I posted those bushmen, but no one mentions this. They only consider single events, and make the comparison to single UHECRs but if you take one step back you see that it is not a single event, it is a whole process that you should take into account. Think of many fires in buildings that cost often hundreds of deaths, there was x-mass decoration that cough fire, some balloons, etc. Look at this clip from the Apollo disaster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8chx10UbI8

"We never gave it any thought what would happen if you had a spark …"
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draph91
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Re: this place has gotten quiet

Post by draph91 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:27 pm

chelle wrote:
draph91 wrote:I see and what would this result in
In a chain reaction (forest fire) or not.

One tree that combusts produces enough heat to make its neighbour to light up. But if the trees are far enough positioned in relation to the heat produced, than the fire won't be passed on, the same goes for the gas explosion in a car.

For a nuclear bomb the energy that is released comes from the fission or fusion of Atoms, like here for an Hydrogen bomb:

Image

See that's only a 'small' reaction/conversion that produces already a lot of energy, now let's imagine that a series of heavier Copper atoms (Cu) that surround the collision spot (a copper wire), are suddenly shaken apart and are ALL converted as a whole at once, that's a far more intense conversion, that might set off a chain reaction.

Image

Note, I'm not saying that this will happen or is even possible, but it is something that should be in the Safety report. It is a very logic chain of thoughts and one of the oldest tricks in the book, therefor I posted those bushmen, but no one mentions this. They only consider single events, and make the comparison to single UHECRs but if you take one step back you see that it is not a single event, it is a whole process that you should take into account. Think of many fires in buildings that cost often hundreds of deaths, there was x-mass decoration that cough fire, some balloons, etc. Look at this clip from the Apollo disaster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8chx10UbI8

"We never gave it any thought what would happen if you had a spark …"
so earth could basically fall apart?, also which apollo mission?
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chelle
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Re: this place has gotten quiet

Post by chelle » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:08 pm

draph91 wrote:so earth could basically fall apart?, also which apollo mission?
Who knows, Earth combusting might even trigger a Supernova, like how a needle can make a balloon explode:
No clear explanation is yet known for the unusual nature of G327.1-1.1, including the off-center position of the pulsar wind nebula seen in the radio data and the comet-like shape of the X-ray emission.

Image

Here is the clip of the balloon being popped: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdMIsCF_7p0
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Re: this place has gotten quiet

Post by draph91 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:20 pm

chelle wrote:
draph91 wrote:so earth could basically fall apart?, also which apollo mission?
Who knows, Earth combusting might even trigger a Supernova, like how a needle can make a balloon explode:
No clear explanation is yet known for the unusual nature of G327.1-1.1, including the off-center position of the pulsar wind nebula seen in the radio data and the comet-like shape of the X-ray emission.

Image

Here is the clip of the balloon being popped: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdMIsCF_7p0
is that even possible?, also you didn't answer my question, which apollo mission
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Re: this place has gotten quiet

Post by chelle » Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:13 pm

draph91 wrote:is that even possible?
I don't know. That's why it should be investigated and included in the Safety Report. We still have thousands of years of research ahead of us, there is no rush, so why not also seriously investigate a combustion scenario? We burn fat, we burn sugar … why wouldn't Atoms burn?

Btw I'm adding an other Supernova vs Balloon & Needle picture:

Image
draph91 wrote:… you didn't answer my question, which apollo mission
It was Apollo 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_1#Fire
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draph91
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Re: this place has gotten quiet

Post by draph91 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:18 pm

chelle wrote:
draph91 wrote:is that even possible?
I don't know. That's why it should be investigated and included in the Safety Report. We still have thousands of years of research ahead of us, there is no rush, so why not also seriously investigate a combustion scenario? We burn fat, we burn sugar … why wouldn't Atoms burn?

Btw I'm adding an other Supernova vs Balloon & Needle picture:

Image
draph91 wrote:… you didn't answer my question, which apollo mission
It was Apollo 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_1#Fire
that is a good point and thank you though that sugar article to me at least, it sounds like it's stating the obvious, but what you told me was very interesting
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draph91
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Re: this place has gotten quiet

Post by draph91 » Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:48 am

chelle wrote:
draph91 wrote:is that even possible?
I don't know. That's why it should be investigated and included in the Safety Report. We still have thousands of years of research ahead of us, there is no rush, so why not also seriously investigate a combustion scenario? We burn fat, we burn sugar … why wouldn't Atoms burn?

Btw I'm adding an other Supernova vs Balloon & Needle picture:

Image
draph91 wrote:… you didn't answer my question, which apollo mission
It was Apollo 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_1#Fire
combust, like in the manhattan project
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chelle
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Re: this place has gotten quiet

Post by chelle » Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:54 am

draph91 wrote:combust, like in the manhattan project
Yes, for a fission bomb the goal was to have an explosion that shook a heavy nuclear element like the plutonium in the Fat Man bomb apart. The problem was to have a high enough pressure (density) to make this happen, and enough of the right element to get a chain reaction going (frequency).

With too little pressure you won't get a reaction going, just like how UHECRs are no danger, but with the right pressure they could. The same for the bushmen, enough sustained friction and the wood starts to heat up and burn, think of how you can smash two sticks with much greater force than those guys are rubbing sticks and you wont get a fire, it is the continuous process that makes all the difference.
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draph91
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Re: this place has gotten quiet

Post by draph91 » Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:53 pm

chelle wrote:
draph91 wrote:combust, like in the manhattan project
Yes, for a fission bomb the goal was to have an explosion that shook a heavy nuclear element like the plutonium in the Fat Man bomb apart. The problem was to have a high enough pressure (density) to make this happen, and enough of the right element to get a chain reaction going (frequency).

With too little pressure you won't get a reaction going, just like how UHECRs are no danger, but with the right pressure they could. The same for the bushmen, enough sustained friction and the wood starts to heat up and burn, think of how you can smash two sticks with much greater force than those guys are rubbing sticks and you wont get a fire, it is the continuous process that makes all the difference.
oh I get what you're saying now, you fear that the constant collisions in the LHC might have consequences
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