Creating "Sparks"

Discussion of the end of the world brought about by ultra high energy colliders.
Stephen
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Re: Creating "Sparks"

Post by Stephen » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:24 pm

Even if it's true, the LHC doesn't make collisions at 10^20. Although I'd be really worried if they suggested going into this energy in future colliders. Particle physics can be pretty scary.

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chelle
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Re: Creating "Sparks"

Post by chelle » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:39 pm

Stephen wrote:Even if it's true, the LHC doesn't make collisions at 10^20.
The scheme of things:
Cosmic rays: 10^7 eV to 10^10 eV
Man-made (LHC): 10^12 to 10^13 eV
OMG Cosmic rays: 3 x 10^20 eV

And like I pointed out before; that the extra energy for the Ultra ray's might be energy that comes from within and isn't caused by velocity.

"the mass of an atomic nucleus is less than the total mass of the protons and neutrons that make it up, but this is only true after the energy (work) of binding has been removed"

So any binding is a containment of energy, destroying it would release "extra" energy.
Stephen wrote:Although I'd be really worried if they suggested going into this energy in future colliders. Particle physics can be pretty scary.
Don’t worry about the future, or worry, but know that worrying is as effective as trying to solve an algebra equation by chewing bubblegum.
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Stephen
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Re: Creating "Sparks"

Post by Stephen » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:50 pm

So you think the collision of the LHC will trigger some kind of a chemical reaction? What will be the results of such a chain reaction?

Well according to the LSAG report, 7 TeV equals to cosmic rays of 10^17 energy.

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chelle
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Re: Creating "Sparks"

Post by chelle » Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:06 pm

Stephen wrote:So you think the collision of the LHC will trigger some kind of a chemical reaction? What will be the results of such a chain reaction?
I 'm just like everybody else, I don't know what the mechanisms of a proton are, and what makes Quarks interact the way they do. I even don't have the skills to look into the future, I could be wrong about it all, and regarding sparks ... try to make a forest fire with a few rock's, to begin you 'll have a hard time creating sparks, you need to have the right rocks, and everything needs to be dry, the right wind, and even then, ... but on other occasions a simple cigaret is enough to put southern California into flames ...
Stephen wrote:Well according to the LSAG report, 7 TeV equals to cosmic rays of 10^17 energy.
I've posted these numbers already earlier:
The table is related to the energy needed to measure the energy of:

1 eV = 1 electron volt -> Atom: 10^-9 m
1 GeV = 10^9 (giga) -> Proton: 10^-16 m
10 TeV = 10x10^12 (tera) -> Higgs? 10^-20 m
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chelle
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Re: Creating "Sparks"

Post by chelle » Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:43 pm

Stephen wrote:What will be the results of such a chain reaction?
Hi Stephen, just to tickle your imagination; I find that the movie "SuperNova" with Angela Bassett had a pretty cool intergalactic-chain-reaction as (alternative) ending, Science Fiction at it's best!

Check it out, I hope it doesn't make you nervous ^_^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17BYELuS2YA
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Re: Creating "Sparks"

Post by Stephen » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:33 pm

Call me old fashioned, but I prefer happy endings. You know, where the heroes manage to save the world and then get hit by a car the next day.

Just to be clear, are you really worried about the LHC creating a chain reaction of some sort, or do you just enjoy exploring the possibilities?

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chelle
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Re: Creating "Sparks"

Post by chelle » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:54 am

Stephen wrote:Call me old fashioned, but I prefer happy endings. You know, where the heroes manage to save the world and then get hit by a car the next day.
... and dies and goes to heaven.
Stephen wrote:Just to be clear, are you really worried about the LHC creating a chain reaction of some sort, or do you just enjoy exploring the possibilities?
Yes, the idea intrigues me.

btw have you seen this story last year, is it funny or tragic? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldne ... -safe.html
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chelle
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Re: Creating "Sparks"

Post by chelle » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:29 pm

ORION111 wrote:
Chelle wrote:btw have you seen this story last year, is it funny or tragic? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldne ... -safe.html
Isn't this 'instant' self karma? LOL
Very funny, but since human lives are lost and to stupidity, it is tragic.
Those geniuses won "The Darwin Award" of 2009: http://www.darwinawards.com

I like this famous quote on their page:
'Only two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not so sure about the Universe.' Albert Einstein
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Stephen
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Re: Creating "Sparks"

Post by Stephen » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:39 pm

It's too bad they were killed, but you can't help but laugh at their stupidity. :sleeping-asleep:

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chelle
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Re: Creating "Sparks"

Post by chelle » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:55 pm

Stephen wrote:It's too bad they were killed, but you can't help but laugh at their stupidity. :sleeping-asleep:
Perhaps their family thinks that it was brave, to risk their lives, trying to get some money.

Anyhow I think the LHC might be a similar act of stupidity :character-smurfpapa:
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chelle
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Re: Creating "Sparks"

Post by chelle » Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:49 pm

ORION111 wrote:
Chelle wrote:Anyhow I think the LHC might be a similar act of stupidity :character-smurfpapa:
Not at all by any means. The chance of LHC destroying the world is zero.
It this your personal conclusion after reading the LSAG-Report, or do you have some sort of a gut feeling, on what is your result based?
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Re: Creating "Sparks"

Post by Stephen » Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:57 pm

ORION111 wrote:
Chelle wrote:Anyhow I think the LHC might be a similar act of stupidity :character-smurfpapa:
Not at all by any means. The chance of LHC destroying the world is zero.
Can you address Chelle's theory about a chain reaction? Does it have any basis?

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Re: Creating "Sparks"

Post by Stephen » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:07 pm

None of it can be answered by the LHC. We could know what happened a micro second after the big bang, but it won't tell us how the energy which allowed the big bang to happen was formed.

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chelle
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Re: Creating "Sparks"

Post by chelle » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:19 pm

ORION111 wrote:
Chelle wrote:It this your personal conclusion after reading the LSAG-Report, or do you have some sort of a gut feeling, on what is your result based?
... It's the physics itself that ensures us the safety at this energy regime, all that knowledge of cosmos we have gathered, tells us.
Tells us what?

Can you explain Ultra-high energy cosmic rays and as stated on the wiki page: Unsolved problems in physics: Why is it that some cosmic rays appear to possess energies that are theoretically too high?
ORION111 wrote:A little background is required to go further. I have done my own research and quite a number of detailed thought experiments on this matter. I am an artificial intelligence researcher, a biologist, a logician, and a physicist.
Do you have a physics degree or is this self thought knowledge?
ORION111 wrote:I have a huge understanding of the universe, and the 'logical understanding' of things that (and logically should) exists from the smallest (far smaller than the planck scale) to the largest (far larger than the extended universe).
mh? ... as an expert of seemingly everything what's your view on this:
Several decades after the discovery of general relativity it was realized that general relativity is incompatible with quantum mechanics. It is possible to describe gravity in the framework of quantum field theory like the other fundamental forces, such that the attractive force of gravity arises due to exchange of virtual gravitons, in the same way as the electromagnetic force arises from exchange of virtual photons. This reproduces general relativity in the classical limit. However, this approach fails at short distances of the order of the Planck length,where a more complete theory of quantum gravity (or a new approach to quantum mechanics) is required. Many believe the complete theory to be string theory, or more currently M-theory, and, on the other hand, it may be a background independent theory such as loop quantum gravity or causal dynamical triangulation.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitation
ORION111 wrote:A functional and logical understanding of almost all things is required to answer the greatest questions. Why it's logical for the existence to emerge? How can time exist? Where does it all come from? And the other purpose, to significantly advance mankind.
Are you high on drugs?
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Re: Creating "Sparks"

Post by CharmQuark » Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:43 am

Where did the Big Bang originate from? And what is time?
Orion i love these type of questions gives ya brain a good workout :mrgreen: :ugeek:

Brian has covered these subjects Chelle and he is 110% not on drugs :D do you think people that ask these kinda questions are all on drugs? kinda small minded that is :shhh:
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted with large ones either by Albert Einstein.

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