Review of not considered risks (Energia Incognita)

Discussion of the end of the world brought about by ultra high energy colliders.
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chelle
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Review of not considered risks (Energia Incognita)

Post by chelle » Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:52 pm

Hi,

I dunno if anyone is still interested in questioning risk ...

Anyway I thought that this article was interesting, the guy brings up some of the points that I also mentioned, and thought were sensible, check it out:

http://www.sciteclibrary.ru/eng/catalog ... 10193.html

cheers,

chelle
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Stephen
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Re: Review of not considered risks (Energia Incognita)

Post by Stephen » Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:30 pm

Not to be paranoid or anything, but can someone read and disprove these claims?

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Re: Review of not considered risks (Energia Incognita)

Post by chriwi » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:23 am

No paper stating that we don't know enough by now and expecting the unexpected can ever be disproofed. And this, same like Ivans, is one of this kind.
On the other hand, if the physicists could be sure that they can calculate every possible outcome of experiments likethe LHC in advance the actual experiment would be obsolete and thereby a wast of money and efforts.
bye

chriwi

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chelle
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Re: Review of not considered risks (Energia Incognita)

Post by chelle » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:31 pm

Stephen wrote:Not to be paranoid or anything, but can someone read and disprove these claims?
Look this experiment is a race that we are going to win, ask any pilot mh I mean particle scientist if it's safe, and he or she will say a full 100% yes, no risk. If there is anything that might pop up it would be like a magician that pulls a rabbit out of his hat, in other words a pleasant surprise, and that is actually what some of us are hoping to find. Anyone suggestion something else is a party-pooper or even worse an "Ivan". I just posted this link to show that I'm not the only one, who suggests with normal argumentation, that shit might hit the fan, so it would make me look a little less insane. As for you and your paranoia, when you step in your car do you think of all the accidents that might happen or about your destination? Either you take a small risk with tiny or even tinier consequences and go, or you don't.
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Re: Review of not considered risks (Energia Incognita)

Post by Stephen » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:17 pm

Bad analogy. If I was killed in a car accident, I wouldn't bring the world to an end. In addition, no one is forced to drive cars against their wills. I have already stated many times that if it had been up to me the LHC would have been canceled a long time ago.

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Re: Review of not considered risks (Energia Incognita)

Post by Allan » Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:15 pm

Stephen wrote:Bad analogy. If I was killed in a car accident, I wouldn't bring the world to an end. In addition, no one is forced to drive cars against their wills. I have already stated many times that if it had been up to me the LHC would have been canceled a long time ago.
Well Stephen with that confession, I guess I will just have to label you a luddite then.

Allan

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Re: Review of not considered risks (Energia Incognita)

Post by Stephen » Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:30 pm

You can label me whatever you want. I'm sick of people accusing others of being insane or being against science in general just because they don't like this particular experiment.

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chelle
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Re: Review of not considered risks (Energia Incognita)

Post by chelle » Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:55 pm

Allan wrote:Well Stephen with that confession, I guess I will just have to label you a luddite then.
haha, I never heard of that "term" I just checked the dictionary and as it turns out:
Luddite: a member of any of the bands of English workers who destroyed machinery, esp. in cotton and woolen mills, that they believed was threatening their jobs

Depending on how look at the situation, you could also say that workers of CERN are Luddites cause they could destroy the working place of a few billion people on this globe :scared-eek:
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Allan
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Re: Review of not considered risks (Energia Incognita)

Post by Allan » Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:58 pm

Chelle wrote:
Allan wrote:Well Stephen with that confession, I guess I will just have to label you a luddite then.
haha, I never heard of that "term" I just checked the dictionary and as it turns out:
Luddite: a member of any of the bands of English workers who destroyed machinery, esp. in cotton and woolen mills, that they believed was threatening their jobs

Depending on how look at the situation, you could also say that people at CERN are Luddites cause they could destroy the working place of a few billion people on this globe :scared-eek:
If you honestly believe that then you have my deepest sympathy.

Allan

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chelle
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Re: Review of not considered risks (Energia Incognita)

Post by chelle » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:16 pm

Allan wrote:If you honestly believe that then you have my deepest sympathy.
No need to sympathise with me, I believe that we humans are the smartest in the universe, and that things won't get this far, sooner or later wisdom will arise and we'll find a way to pass by the issues that we don't understand at this moment in time.
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Re: Review of not considered risks (Energia Incognita)

Post by Kasuha » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:28 pm

The article does not look scientific to me, rather it is just written in a style to look scientific.

Some claims are directly opposite to conclusions of LHC safety report without any discussion with it.

The chapter about rotational energy was interesting, I really wonder if a proton can rotate and if it can, if a magnetic field can affect anything on it. Personally I think it can't.

One of funnier parts that caught my attention:
"Such scientific paradox: the proton consists of three quarks, but it is absolutely impossible to allocate them separately. Nature laws do not allow. That is why any quark bombs cannot exist".
Everything is an explosive! The problem is an available detonator.
Author is russian, hence the approach.
Preliminary data on a QGP have shown, that it represents the most ideal liquid (Ideal liquid) from all known to us/37/. And the ideal liquid is an ideal solvent or universal solvent . And our terrestrial matter can be only nutrient medium QGP.
First sentence is true as of current knowledge, the second and third sentences are just put there to scare the reader. RHIC has already re-created QGP and I don't feel being eaten by a QGP ball. Author is just making wild assumptions completely ignoring physical nature of the matter.

It looks like a pile of nonsense to me, regardless all the tables, graphs and equations.
Stephen wrote:Not to be paranoid or anything, but can someone read and disprove these claims?
Not to be paranoid or anything, but are you 100% sure an airplane will not crash into your house this or any following night?

As opposed to wild theories about LHC, there is lots of evidence that airplanes can be very deadly and can crash into houses...

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chelle
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Re: Review of not considered risks (Energia Incognita)

Post by chelle » Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:13 pm

Kasuha wrote:Not to be paranoid or anything, but are you 100% sure an airplane will not crash into your house this or any following night?

As opposed to wild theories about LHC, there is lots of evidence that airplanes can be very deadly and can crash into houses...
Check this out, it's in dutch but I think it's worthwile to have a look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lYWzvyCqew

The farmers house is next to the airport and every 2 minutes there passes an airplane, 747's included, at about 5 to 25 meters above his the roof of his house. There is even a piece of the lightning installation of the runway placed in the middle of his back yard. He can't speak with his wife because they can't hear each other due to the noise, his bedroom is just under the roof and planes start arriving at 7 AM. There are also trains passing by a few times every hour and they are planing to build a extra track for high-speed trains as well. And he lives there already since 1954 I bet you he doesn't give a **** about the risks of the LHC :)
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romeor
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Re: Review of not considered risks (Energia Incognita)

Post by romeor » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:49 pm

Chelle wrote:
Kasuha wrote:Not to be paranoid or anything, but are you 100% sure an airplane will not crash into your house this or any following night?
As opposed to wild theories about LHC, there is lots of evidence that airplanes can be very deadly and can crash into houses...
Check this out, it's in dutch but I think it's worthwile to have a look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lYWzvyCqew
The farmers house is next to the airport and every 2 minutes there passes an airplane, 747's included, at about 5 to 25 meters above his the roof of his house. There is even a piece of the lightning installation of the runway placed in the middle of his back yard. He can't speak with his wife because they can't hear each other due to the noise, his bedroom is just under the roof and planes start arriving at 7 AM. There are also trains passing by a few times every hour and they are planing to build a extra track for high-speed trains as well. And he lives there already since 1954 I bet you he doesn't give a **** about the risks of the LHC :)
[/size]
_________
All I can say is WOW!!!!!!!!! :angry-screaming:
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Cheers,
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Re: Review of not considered risks (Energia Incognita)

Post by mrgumby » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:40 am

If you insist on worrying about stuff.....find something "real" to worry about. Like your mortgage repayments, or how your kids are doing at school, or if you have undiagnosed Cancer. Never mind the imagined fantasies of the "Ivan" crowd.

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Re: Review of not considered risks (Energia Incognita)

Post by CharmQuark » Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:31 pm

I can safely say Ivan and his croud does NOT scare me anymore :thumbup: are you all proud of me :ugeek:
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted with large ones either by Albert Einstein.

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