here we go again 2

Discussion of the end of the world brought about by ultra high energy colliders.
draph91
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here we go again 2

Post by draph91 » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:02 pm

CERN’s Large Hadron Collider hits 1-PeV milestone with heavy ions (and re-ignites doomsday talk)
http://www.geekwire.com/2015/cern-lhc-l ... sday-talk/

the lhc has reached a new energy record as well as other things
A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it - Agent K

You hear one doomsday prediction, you hear them all

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chelle
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Re: here we go again 2

Post by chelle » Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:50 pm

Thanks for posting.

I guess they like to add the cliché of doomsday to create some excitement / humour.

On the other side this kind of 'laughter' makes me think of the city I live in, and that has been under lockdown due to the terrorist attacks. In the past the general public/politics was mocking critique about islamic influences that was taking grip in some neighbourhoods and laughing all problems away, and saying that it was all rightwing propaganda. Now that things have gotten out of control they are realising that there was some truth in what people where saying, but now it is too late.

Same thing with the LHC, have some critique and you're a doom-preacher.
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mfb
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Re: here we go again 2

Post by mfb » Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:59 pm

For every place, object or situation, there is someone claiming it is dangerous.
Most of those claims are pointless.

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chelle
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Re: here we go again 2

Post by chelle » Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:39 pm

mfb wrote:For every place, object or situation, there is someone claiming it is dangerous.
Most of those claims are pointless.
Well you got the (reasonable) hype of Global Warming debating over a couple of degrees, and millions of activists. While temperatures at the LHC are a quarter of a million times those at the core of the sun, with frequencies and densities 10 billion higher than in nature, and when you make remarks about this you're a doom-preacher, go figure. :mrgreen:
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Re: here we go again 2

Post by mfb » Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:33 pm

Take a room with a single atom of mercury (needs a very thorough cleaning campaign). Now let 10 billion additional atoms of mercury in. Oh no, you increased the concentration by a factor of a ten billions! Is it dangerous? No, you are still more than 10 orders of magnitude away from concentrations that can be harmful to humans. To be harmful to the integrity of the room, you need even more.
If you complain about 10 billion atoms of mercury in a room, you are a doom-preacher.

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chelle
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Re: here we go again 2

Post by chelle » Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:42 am

mfb wrote:Take a room with a single atom of mercury (needs a very thorough cleaning campaign). Now let 10 billion additional atoms of mercury in. Oh no, you increased the concentration by a factor of a ten billions! Is it dangerous? No, you are still more than 10 orders of magnitude away from concentrations that can be harmful to humans. To be harmful to the integrity of the room, you need even more.
If you complain about 10 billion atoms of mercury in a room, you are a doom-preacher.
Sure in that case you are doom-preacher because we now exactly how dangerous mercury is dosis-wise, but we don't know this for particle collisions:
In nature there are about a thousand Cosmic-ray collisions of a few GeV’s (1 GeV= 10^9 electron Volt) per second per m^2. In LHC it are about one 1 billion per second per cm^2. That’s 1.000.000 times more for an area which is 10.000 smaller, it is a density & frequency difference of 10 billion and unique in the Universe.

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This year we humans have even generated collisions on this planet, that were an other 1000 times more intense, record energies of 13 TeV (1 TeV= 10^12 eV). These collisions are in nature of course less frequent per m^2 while the density & frequency at the LHC of 10 billion per cm^2 was maintained.
It is like using lightly dense fog as a safety reference for heavy compacted hail.

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Re: here we go again 2

Post by mfb » Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:47 pm

We have the massive ice balls in nature, and the fog in the LHC. Yeah, about right, if you distribute the billions of fog droplets over the whole surface of Earth.

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chelle
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Re: here we go again 2

Post by chelle » Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:58 pm

mfb wrote:We have the massive ice balls in nature, and the fog in the LHC. Yeah, about right, if you distribute the billions of fog droplets over the whole surface of Earth.
Haha … look at the graph, it is the LHC who's the massively dense Ice ball. :mrgreen:
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Re: here we go again 2

Post by mfb » Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:25 pm

Many small collisions = fog
A few really hard collisions = hail

We know the car windshield survives the hail, it will survive the fog droplet "impacts".

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chelle
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Re: here we go again 2

Post by chelle » Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:01 pm

mfb wrote:Many small collisions = fog
A few really hard collisions = hail
Oh no, not again … it looks like you can't you read or even interpret a graph. :mrgreen:

Low density & frequency = fog (Cosmic Rays in Nature)
High density many collisions compressed in one small area = hail (Collisions at the LHC)
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chelle
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Re: here we go again 2

Post by chelle » Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:26 am

Hey mfb,

Just adding this quote by Mahatma Gandhi ... because I'm laughing at you.

I do so because Ghandi's checklist actually works: if you ignore someone, 80% of the time you'll win; add to that laughing, you rise to 90% chance; take the extra step to fighting, your chances will increase again up 2 99% ... Only the truly 1% lucky ones like Gandhi will still be on their feet and win ... the exception proves the rule that works. So haha-hihi to you mfb! :mrgreen:


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Kasuha
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Re: here we go again 2

Post by Kasuha » Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:52 am


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chelle
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Re: here we go again 2

Post by chelle » Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:14 pm

Hey Kasuha … great to see you show up again … with a correction.

Thanks! :thumbup:

I guess this makes the statement less wise. :roll:

btw HAPPY NEW YEAR … to all of you!
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Re: here we go again 2

Post by mfb » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:35 pm

chelle wrote:Just adding this quote by Mahatma Gandhi ... because I'm laughing at you.
Following your logic, your next step would be to fight me, and then you lose. Is that what you wanted to say?
I would prefer to go back to the ignore step, because your pet crackpot theory is just annoying.

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chelle
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Re: here we go again 2

Post by chelle » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:45 pm

mfb wrote:I would prefer to go back to the ignore step …
But you couldn't, hihi :mrgreen:
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