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Magnetic monopoles found?

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:38 am
by Stephen
I read a few articles which were written not too long ago, and apparently magnetic monopoles were observed.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 163725.htm
http://www.physorg.com/news171209923.html
http://www.popsci.com/technology/articl ... c-currents
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/40302

1. It's not clear to me - did those monopoles decay?
2. Were they found to be dangerous?
3. Is it possible they are also produced in cosmic rays and would therefore be produced at the LHC?

Re: Magnetic monopoles found?

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:48 pm
by Shadowdraxx
As taken from one of the Articles:



"The spin-ice monopoles have very different origins from those predicted by Dirac's work on quantum electrodynamics and therefore their discovery is unlikely to help physicists develop grand unified theories of particle physics or string theories. But because the monopoles occur in magnetic materials, understanding their properties could help with the development of magnetic memories and other spintronic devices."


Highlighted one of the differences

Re: Magnetic monopoles found?

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:07 pm
by Stephen
The differences on what? You're going to have to explain this more clearly to me, as I have little physics knowledge. Basically you're saying the production of these monopoles is not possible at cosmic rays, or still theoretical despite this experiment?

Re: Magnetic monopoles found?

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:47 pm
by cedrich
These observed magnetic monopoles are more a property of magnetic materials (as, for example, iron is ferromagnetic) than a "fundamental particle" such as in Dirac view.

Re: Magnetic monopoles found?

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:03 pm
by Stephen
But isn't it supposed to be the same?

Re: Magnetic monopoles found?

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:43 pm
by cedrich
At my understanding it can be compared to the difference between the dipolar magnetic momentum of a particle (proton, neutron...) acting as a dipole and a dipolar magnet (the dipolar magnet is a structure build to produce a dipolar field).

Dirac magnetic monopoles are "particles" with monopolar momentum and are not observed, but we can observe "structures" having a monopolar magnetic field.

Re: Magnetic monopoles found?

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:10 pm
by Stephen
I have another question - What will happen to the magnetic monopole after it will be created by the LHC and escapes the earth? Could it come back or do damage to the solar system?

Re: Magnetic monopoles found?

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:15 pm
by Allan
Hi Stephen;

I think worrying about monopoles or black holes is worthless in the light of the countries that now have or are developing nuclear weapons. If you really want to lose some sleep think about Iran getting nuclear weapons. That makes all of Ivan's claims about CERN and it's LHC seem like small potatoes :angry-screaming: I think.

Allan :wtf:

Re: Magnetic monopoles found?

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:28 pm
by Stephen
Allan wrote:Hi Stephen;

I think worrying about monopoles or black holes is worthless in the light of the countries that now have or are developing nuclear weapons. If you really want to lose some sleep think about Iran getting nuclear weapons. That makes all of Ivan's claims about CERN and it's LHC seem like small potatoes :angry-screaming: I think.

Allan :wtf:
I'm actually very concerned over this issue as well, but it doesn't cancel my fear over the LHC. In the LSAG they say a light proton eating monopole will eat 10^18 before exiting the earth, but what happens after that?

Re: Magnetic monopoles found?

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:11 pm
by Shadowdraxx
it flies off into the cosmos?

I don't know but the existence of the universe in its current state must mean that nothing bad happens

Re: Magnetic monopoles found?

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:33 pm
by JNW
Stephen wrote:In the LSAG they say a light proton eating monopole will eat 10^18 before exiting the earth, but what happens after that?
Only the ultra-heavy GUT monopoles can eat protons. The light monopoles that the LHC might produce never eat protons.

The only problem monopoles might cause is if the LHC produces so many that they could interfere with the dynamo that produces the earth's magnetic field. If that happens, the LHC would have to be shut down until monopole traps are placed around the collision points.

And yes, I have seen a theory where monopoles from space accumulate in the earth's core until they disrupt the dynamo, which then allows the north and south monopoles to meet and annihilate. That allows the dynamo to restart, sometimes in the reversed direction.

Re: Magnetic monopoles found?

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:43 pm
by Stephen
So that means there is actually a high risk involved in producing these monopoles?

Re: Magnetic monopoles found?

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:44 pm
by Stephen
That's true, but the LSAG report also says that even if a light proton eating magnetic monopole will be created, it will ruin only 10^18 before leaving the earth. My question is what will happen to the solar system as a result? Because that seems like a pretty fast rate of destroying particles.

Re: Magnetic monopoles found?

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:59 pm
by Stephen
Okay, that seems like a solid argument I guess. Why have the LSAG calculated the 10^18 rate, then?

Re: Magnetic monopoles found?

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:45 pm
by Allan
Stephen wrote:That's true, but the LSAG report also says that even if a light proton eating magnetic monopole will be created, it will ruin only 10^18 before leaving the earth. My question is what will happen to the solar system as a result? Because that seems like a pretty fast rate of destroying particles.
Hi Stephen;

I do wish you would provide a reference as to where you found that a light proton eating magnetic monopole will be created, it will ruin only 10^18 before leaving the earth. I have looked through the LSAG but I am unable to locate that in it.

Allan :mrgreen: