LHC's Newest Data: A Victory For The Standard Model, Defeat…

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chelle
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Re: LHC's Newest Data: A Victory For The Standard Model, Def

Post by chelle » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:27 pm

Fair enough, but this brings us back to Ethan's first line:
It means that colliders aren’t the answer. It means the LHC won’t reveal new physics …
There are still some details to be 'noted' but collidors aren't teaching us anything special, the bang for the buck ratio is pretty low.
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mfb
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Re: LHC's Newest Data: A Victory For The Standard Model, Def

Post by mfb » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:16 pm

Those are not details.
but collidors aren't teaching us anything special
Nothing apart from finding nearly every particle known today, and establishing all of particle physics and most of nuclear physics. Oh, and allowing cosmology models to work. With side-effects of new and better medical imaging and treatments, particle accelerators for the semiconductor industry (the computer you use to access this forum would be worse without them), the invention of the world wide web (where this forum runs on), advancements of grid computing (which companies like google use), and tons of other stuff.

Do you really think you are qualified to estimate the use to cost ratio if you have absolutely no clue about the uses?

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chelle
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Re: LHC's Newest Data: A Victory For The Standard Model, Def

Post by chelle » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:57 pm

Sure, colliders have been great … but like Ethan said they aren't going to reveal any new physics.

Regarding CERN giving us the internet that is a little pretentious don't you think. You should read Walter Isaacson's book The Innovators: How a Group of Hackers, Geniuses and Geeks Created the Digital Revolution, just to see that CERN played 'only' a small part. But hey if you like to tell the world that you are it … go ahead.

Oh, and me … I am no reference at all. :mrgreen:
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mfb
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Re: LHC's Newest Data: A Victory For The Standard Model, Def

Post by mfb » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:31 pm

chelle wrote:Sure, colliders have been great … but like Ethan said they aren't going to reveal any new physics.
And you know that because some magical fairy told you so?

2010: The proton ridge is discovered
2011: An early clear confirmation of quark-gluon plasma.
2011: Observation of χb (3P), a baryon that helps a lot understanding the bottom quark states.
2012: Discovery of the Higgs boson.
2013: P'5 shows a ~4 sigma deviation from the standard model prediction. Maybe new physics, maybe something we can learn about the standard model.
2014: Observation of tetraquarks, where it was unclear if those exist at all
2015: Observations of pentaquarks, where it was unclear if those exist at all
2016: Further analysis of P'5 and improved theory predictions still lead to a notable deviation.
2012-2016: Several 2-3 sigma deviations from lepton flavor universality in various decay channels appeared. Maybe a statistical fluctuation, maybe new physics.

Summary: The LHC found something new and surprising in every year so far. Note that I just covered unexpected things in this list (and I'm sure I missed several things) - we also have the hundreds of important measurements improving the precision of everything known. There is no reason to expect this series to end exactly in this year, where the first analyses of a large dataset at a higher energy will be released in three months.


I don't say you should know all those things. But you should know them if you want to judge the use of the LHC.
Regarding CERN giving us the internet
Don't misquote me. I said world wide web.

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chelle
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Re: LHC's Newest Data: A Victory For The Standard Model, Def

Post by chelle » Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:01 am

mfb wrote:Summary: The LHC found something new and surprising in every year so far.
You sound like a gambling addict. Look at your list, aside from the Higgs you hardly found anything. You simply can't and won't stop. :mrgreen:

Oh and sure the World Wide Web isn't the same as the internet, I am sorry. :oops:
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Re: LHC's Newest Data: A Victory For The Standard Model, Def

Post by mfb » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:52 am

Look at your list, aside from the Higgs you hardly found anything.
Or you just don't see the importance of the discoveries.

The funding agencies see their importance and give money for the HL-LHC upgrade.

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