How much does it cost...

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Danny252
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How much does it cost...

Post by Danny252 » Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:41 pm

I've been wondering how much filling the LHC with protons/ions costs.

How much does a proton fill cost?
I assume more bunches/intensity cost more?
Do Pb ions cost more to use?
Is there a pricetag per collision? :P

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Allan
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Re: How much does it cost...

Post by Allan » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:14 pm

Are you thinking of dollars per pound or francs per kilogram?

I suspect that the largest cost item would be the energy required to get them moving that fast.

Allan

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DCWhitworth
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Re: How much does it cost...

Post by DCWhitworth » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:50 pm

Danny252 wrote:I've been wondering how much filling the LHC with protons/ions costs.

How much does a proton fill cost?
I assume more bunches/intensity cost more?
Do Pb ions cost more to use?
Is there a pricetag per collision? :P
OK I'm largely guessing here but here goes anyway.

In terms of the cost of the particles pretty much nothing. The amount of matter actually used is so small the entire process starts with a single cylinder of Hydrogen and that will last a long while (I think I read about a year)

I would think more bunches/intensity probably doesn't cost more really. It is the higher energies that will cost more (for electricity)

Lead would not really cost much more again because the amount is so small.

The collider will produce billions of collisions so the cost per collision would be minimal too.

I think there are some figures somewhere on how much power the LHC uses (a lot !) and these would give you some idea how much it costs to run. But I guess the costs are almost exclusively power (if you exclude manpower and maintenance)
DC

The LHC - One ring to rule them all !

Danny252
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Re: How much does it cost...

Post by Danny252 » Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:01 am

Then again, surely they'll want incredibly high purity samples of Hydrogen (which I assume they want for protons) and Lead - that I know can cost a lot. But like you say, it is miniscule quantities.

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DCWhitworth
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Re: How much does it cost...

Post by DCWhitworth » Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:23 am

Danny252 wrote:Then again, surely they'll want incredibly high purity samples of Hydrogen (which I assume they want for protons) and Lead - that I know can cost a lot. But like you say, it is miniscule quantities.
Wouldn't he impurties just drop out during the creation/acceleration/injection process ? If you had a heavier particle for instance it wouldn't make it around the SPS I'd have thought.
DC

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Allan
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Re: How much does it cost...

Post by Allan » Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:13 am

[quote="Wouldn't he impurties just drop out during the creation/acceleration/injection process ? If you had a heavier particle for instance it wouldn't make it around the SPS I'd have thought.[/quote]

I like it. A system that purifies the material for itself. Neat :!: :mrgreen:

Allan

josch222
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Re: How much does it cost...

Post by josch222 » Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:37 pm

Here you can see a photo of the H2 bottle:

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/featu ... 1?slide=15

It is really small, lab size, the related Vanity-Fair article says it is a 1 liter bottle.
I don't know about the purity, but if you think about the non-perfect vacuum in the
collider pipes there are always a few atoms of other gases around which would be hit
occasionally. So I think the H2 must not be of special purity, maybe lab-grade.

In a few years we will know the cost per Higgs, that will be an interesting figure ;-)

Joerg.

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