Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

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Shadowdraxx
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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by Shadowdraxx » Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:01 pm

Ahh i see this thread has gone like every other one.

And some of those comments are really shameful Ivan, the ones on CNN and such, going on about bombing places, violence is never an answer.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by Anitusar » Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:00 pm

MagneticTrap wrote: 2. I hate physicists who undergo our lives to death risk.
....
Big Bang is a Religious Dogma, built on theft, deception, lies, crime.
....
Contemporary scientists are thieves, witches, bandits and potential killers.
....
But bigbangers will non listen me. They would explode the Earth better. Religion and science are incompatible.
....
1. If we will not stop LHC, the ceiling of your room will smash you into a thin film some day this year with probability about 50%. That will be the proof of my assertion that "CERN scientists are criminals".
2. Big Bang theorists are thieves, witches, bandits, potential killers. I and others are trying to build the real cosmology and to stop BB crimes.
:text-nocomment:

Well, well i do not think it the scientists who have a dogmatic view. And as you have no serious interest in a discusion as you keep on your rant and telling always I know the truth, and everybody who does not agree with me just is a murderer, I will leave this thread too.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by Stephen » Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:34 pm

Ivan, if you really think scientists are criminals who won't listen to you, why do you only write in science related forums? :confusion-questionmarks:
If you really want to address the public, you should open a facebook group, write on discussion boards of games and TV shows or go to Hyde Park and tell everyone about your theory. :confusion-waiting: :law-police:

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by MagneticTrap » Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:14 pm

ORION111 wrote:You do not understand physics nor are willing to look at evidence.
Find an error in my Topic "Several biggest errors of particle physicists", point #2, about a quantity of protons, ruined by a magnetic monopole. That is the simplest problem. Several groups of scientists from CERN repeated that error. Are they better physicist than me, after those errors. I do not believe that gang of liars. Here is my small vb-program to that topic http://darkenergy.narod.ru/dranken.exe
ORION111 wrote:You may not use your personal, highly-deluded views of physics and call all physicists terrorists.

Not all. Only those, who are ready to kill me and you now.
ORION111 wrote:The threats you have made for far too long will leave no one with empathy for you.
If the LHC will be stopped, the time will come, when majority of physicists will understand what is magnetic hole and what is LHC. May be then, they will change their attitude to me from scientific retrograde into something better.
Stephen wrote:Ivan, if you really think scientists are criminals who won't listen to you, why do you only write in science related forums?
If you really want to address the public, you should open a facebook group, write on discussion boards of games and TV shows or go to Hyde Park and tell everyone about your theory.
Give me money, and I'll say about MHs and LHC death threat from TV-screen.
Anitusar wrote:And as you have no serious interest in a discusion as you keep on your rant and telling always I know the truth, and everybody who does not agree with me just is a murderer, I will leave this thread too
I did not say that. I said approximately thus: “some physicists, persisting on LHC experiment, are your potential killers. There is 50% probability that they will kill you, if you will not stop them now.

I am not alone.
Walter Wagner, Luis Sancho, Otto Rössler, Rainer Plaga and so on.

Read, for example, a new article of Prof. Eric Johnson
“The Black Hole Case: The Injunction Against the End of the World” http://arxiv.org/abs/0912.5480

There are also many Russian-language people, who also say about the LHC threat:
Golota V.V. http://n-t.ru/tp/ng/ps.htm
Dovgel E.S. http://dovgel.com/bak/zern.htm
Atsukovskij V.A. http://darkenergy.narod.ru/atsva.html
and so on.

But I am in the crudest situation, - they fear of slowly-growing black holes or strangelets, I fear rapidly-growing magnetic holes. The theory of magnetic hole is unknown and, AFAIK, no one from CERN does not want to investigate it.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by Stephen » Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:49 pm

You shouldn't be so harsh on Ivan - it will only strengthen his belief that no one wants to listen to him and the big bang is a religious dogma. :sleeping-sleeping:

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by Shadowdraxx » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:00 pm

Read, for example, a new article of Prof. Eric Johnson
“The Black Hole Case: The Injunction Against the End of the World” http://arxiv.org/abs/0912.5480
I've read this and re-read it and I know Prof Johnsons logic is flawed.

However he does also have a point that the LSAG report was not impartial, from the point a law case is concerned.

(if u need an example of how flawed it is, he says "well u know LSAG isnt to be 100% trusted because some of them are under CERN", however he fails to point out every organisation known to man regarding physics endorsed it, and it was exstensivly peer reviewed, and deemed solid).

As for Wagner? LOL He has moaned about accelerators for 10 years and never ever ever grasped the understanding nor is able to comment about typical theories, nor has he ever written a paper, he justs cut and pastes key wordings from documents and papers, to encourage fear, his real motives are unclear, however he is clearly upto something.

(he also has no qualifications regarding physics, and is well known for saying he's something he's not, (his own site says's he's Dr. Wagner which is mis-leading as he isnt a Dr. as such (if atall as even his legal Doctrate is called into question) also he has a now well funded court case against him for fraud (thanks to daily show).

The other guy Sancho, OMG least you are attempting to attack the LHC on scientific grounds Ivan this guy is off the charts for nuttsville.

Otto Rössler, Rainer Plaga both had their papers slammed, even tho CERN distanced itself from digging into them, (wise really shows they don't want to laugh in superiority) however what Rössler and Plaga did do is bring people together for conversation, which isnt generally a bad thing.

"and so on" who else? im seeing 5 people (6 including Ivan) that are rumbling on about doomsday from the LHC 6 out of 5 billion, NON are connected to physics in any way, its like me telling a pilot how to fly.

IF the LHC could really blow up the earth for the small sum of $10 billion then why the hell isnt North Korea building one, or any other countries that feel the need to bandish arms, or any war mongering folk?

Cheaper than weapons development by about 4000%, hold the world to ransom, buildable underground to secure against destruction, sounds like the perfect weapon to me.

We can talk about this for ever, but 1 million collision events already Ivan, thats already blown your own "destruction estimates" away, even tho only you hold the key to how the percentages work.....

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by Shadowdraxx » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:00 pm

ORION111 wrote:Would you like to explain this to me.

Haven't we done collisions at 1,960 GeV for the past nine years. Then why would you need a 100 GeV upper limit when the LHC comes online?

NOOOOOOOOOOOO dont do it, this is where the threads always reset,

to save Ivan the bother here is the reply he WILL post:
1. Tevatron. Collisions of proton and antiproton. Annihilation.
2. RHIC. Collisions of ions. Insufficient energy per colliding nucleon.
3. LHC. Collisions of protons. Minimal magnetic hole, able to capture protons, to be created needs 0.5 TeV per pair of protons. If the magnetic moment of the resulting bosons is different, then the needed energy is also different.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by Stephen » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:48 pm

ORION111 wrote:But what about the Large Electron–Positron Collider (LEP), it had the direct energy of the center-of-mass 209 GeV?
Ivan's answer -
Why it was not received yet, I have already said and will repeat here:
Here are some possible explanations:
1. We do not know the magnetic moment of the resulting boson.
2. It is possible that magnetic hole could be born in a collision of two quarks, for example by d and d.
3. At the Tevatron they collide protons with antiprotons and this lead to the annihilation.
4. We do not know the magnetic polarization dependence.
5. It is not excluded that microscopic magnetic traps were already created, and they are growing now somewhere inside the Earth.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by Shadowdraxx » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:20 pm

yeah i think thats the point no matter what u ask what u show, Ivan's stance never changes period.

that's why every other thread on forums have either:

1: died
2: locked
3: banned Ivan

sad but I dont see an end to this other than agree that we all disagree :angry-banghead:

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by CharmQuark » Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:14 pm

Chris is not back till the 11th
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted with large ones either by Albert Einstein.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by Stephen » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:18 pm

Let's not ban Ivan - this forum is meant after all for all the controversial theories like Ivan's. It's better than him going around and posting death threats on CNN and other sites. I kinda like having him around, in a creepy way.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by CharmQuark » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:23 pm

Hmmmm stephen yeah i would feel kinda lost without Ivan hanging around being is lovely cheerful self :D
I think maybe this debate should be locked?
But however it's getting really boring now same thing
All the time..........something really needs to give :ugeek:

:axe:
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted with large ones either by Albert Einstein.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by Shadowdraxx » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:25 pm

My only concern for all of this is the emotional blackmail that im seeing, if someone that needs some knowledge on the lhc and has come to this forum/site, then stuff like this is going to clearly have a negative effect on them, it does with me having to answer to stuff.

To me this is a real concern more real than any threat that *hypothetically* come from the LHC.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by CharmQuark » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:34 pm

My only concern for all of this is the emotional blackmail that im seeing, if someone that needs some knowledge on the lhc and has come to this forum/site, then stuff like this is going to clearly have a negative effect on them, it does with me having to answer to stuff.

To me this is a real concern more real than any threat that *hypothetically* come from the LHC.
Shadowdraxx I can totally see where your coming from, this is a good forum and we are growing everyday we don't need people being put off like i have said something needs to be done............
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted with large ones either by Albert Einstein.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by Xymox » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:31 am

wow

15 pages of Ivan.. 2000 views... This thread is very popular.. Its like some bad oprah show..

First of all. I have a serious stance on someone being free to express themselves. This freedom is very fundamental. I am very serious about someone being able to express a different view in this forum. I have stated very clearly the rules down here in the controversial forum. Ivan has observed these rules. He has defended his views and answered questions. Just like most of us he is very sure of his ideas and is expressing his deeply held concerns.

I dont see that Ivan has broken the rules ? In fact he has created hours of entertainment for all of us. I am very happy that I have been able to provide a open forum where freedom of expression is guaranteed. I take this very seriously and unless Ivan seriously breaks the rules I do not want to take away his ability to express himself.

The controversial forum is going to make some people angry. Its going to create frustration and angst. Its going to be entertaining.

I want to have Ivan here on the forum. During the next year the LHC will ramp up to energies that will begin to disprove his concerns. Over time here in this thread we can address his theories with results from the LHC.

I am open to discussion on this of course. If I missed something he posted that broke rules let me know... Also I am extending my trip until the 18th, but I will be checking in far more often..

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