Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

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Kasuha
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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by Kasuha » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:55 am

Chelle wrote:I'm talking about Fireballs of Free Quarks:
Oh... I thought you understand my forest example is an analogy. I wonder what a good analogy of your "fireball" could be in that forest. Maybe a huge pile of burning wood?
Chelle wrote:I don't see why Fireballs wouldn't pass through rocks like a knife through butter.
I don't see any reason why they should even exist long enough to touch it.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by chelle » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:44 pm

Kasuha wrote:
Chelle wrote:I don't see why Fireballs wouldn't pass through rocks like a knife through butter.
I don't see any reason why they should even exist long enough to touch it.
That's fair to say, I have to check this a little bit better, I might come back on it later.
Kasuha wrote:
Chelle wrote:I'm talking about Fireballs of Free Quarks:
Oh... I thought you understand my forest example is an analogy. I wonder what a good analogy of your "fireball" could be in that forest. Maybe a huge pile of burning wood?
I had in another topic (sparks) this example, I would like to hear your comment on it:

... if I may use an other analogy, where the nuclei of atoms are like windmills and matter is like a field of windmills. In this case when you smash 2 against each other, their parts start flying in all directions and their vanes are launched away like Jets, now in a normal situation the blades would be rotating at normal speed and harmless and will not be cast away at a higher speed than the incoming windmill. But if you do generate a lot of heat by generating one collision after the other, that might make the vanes of all windmills in the area spin at an extreme high speed. If they get hit in such a situation, it would take just enough energy of an incoming vane to also lose its composure, and launch vanes into the surrounding mills etc.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by Kasuha » Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:12 pm

Chelle wrote:... if I may use an other analogy, where the nuclei of atoms are like windmills and matter is like a field of windmills. In this case when you smash 2 against each other, their parts start flying in all directions and their vanes are launched away like Jets, now in a normal situation the blades would be rotating at normal speed and harmless and will not be cast away at a higher speed than the incoming windmill. But if you do generate a lot of heat by generating one collision after the other, that might make the vanes of all windmills in the area spin at an extreme high speed. If they get hit in such a situation, it would take just enough energy of an incoming vane to also lose its composure, and launch vanes into the surrounding mills etc.
It's about as good as my analogy I think. In the end it all goes down to how far apart these windmills are standing from each other. This and generally nothing else defines if the system can support chain reaction or not - and the size of the initiating impulse does not matter that much, the impulse only needs to be strong enough (e.g. you can start a forest fire by a single match or a hundred liters of napalm, the result will be the same).
When we go from the analogy to our real world though, we find that these trees or windmills stand really very far away from each other to allow any such kind of chain reaction to occur.

Any chain reaction is matter of:
- efficiency of single reaction (how much additional energy is gained)
- efficiency of energy transfer (how much of this additional energy does not dissipate and leads to continuing the chain)
and in fact, both these factors play strongly agains any such chain reactions occuring in our world.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by Stephen » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:01 am

Ivan, you might be interested in knowing that Dr. Strange Feynman has made some additional commets on this debate -
http://www.2012hoax.org/forum/t-222867/ ... e-in-chile

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by CharmQuark » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:42 am

Ivan I miss you :cry: thought we was gonna go away to an island somewhere for 3 months :oops: bet you have forgot about it ;)
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted with large ones either by Albert Einstein.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by Stephen » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:51 am

CharmQuark wrote:Ivan I miss you :cry: thought we was gonna go away to an island somewhere for 3 months :oops: bet you have forgot about it ;)
Maybe he is focusing on getting his life back in order. But anyway, he promised me a flight to cosmos in an icy comet.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by Mailo » Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:28 am

Stephen wrote:
CharmQuark wrote:Ivan I miss you :cry: thought we was gonna go away to an island somewhere for 3 months :oops: bet you have forgot about it ;)
Maybe he is focusing on getting his life back in order. But anyway, he promised me a flight to cosmos in an icy comet.
Dibs on front row seat on your comet :D

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by mrgumby » Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:41 am

have you got enough tinfoil hats for everyone?

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by CharmQuark » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:23 pm

Stephen wrote:
CharmQuark wrote:Ivan I miss you :cry: thought we was gonna go away to an island somewhere for 3 months :oops: bet you have forgot about it ;)
Maybe he is focusing on getting his life back in order. But anyway, he promised me a flight to cosmos in an icy comet.
Stephen is that the same one that me and Orion were going on ;) I still think i should write about the Cosmic adventures of Emmylou and Orion :? what do you think :whistle:
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted with large ones either by Albert Einstein.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by mrgumby » Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:30 am

Yes! Yes! Yes! I can't wait for the first chapter. :clap:

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by chelle » Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:32 am

mrgumby wrote:Yes! Yes! Yes! I can't wait for the first chapter.
Hey guys, I don't mind you joking around with people who say that something might go wrong in the lhc, but I don't think it's correct to do it in this topic. It looks like a stupid cover up to avoid further discussion, anyway it is drifting away from the original subject that Ivan started. So I would suggest cutting the thread around here would be sensible. You might want to call it "the funnies".
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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by MagneticTrap » Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:34 am

Stephen wrote:Ivan, you might be interested in knowing that Dr. Strange Feynman has made some additional commets on this debate -
http://www.2012hoax.org/forum/t-222867/ ... e-in-chile
Yes, my thoughts are analogues to his thoughts.
But who is he; why does he hidden behind the nick?
CharmQuark wrote:Ivan I miss you :cry: thought we was gonna go away to an island somewhere for 3 months :oops: bet you have forgot about it ;)
Dear CharmQuark! The probability of our common tour to uninhabited planet in icy comet is much more probable than to an island.

To all:
I regularly look at the page http://op-webtools.web.cern.ch/op-webto ... p?usr=LHC3
It would be great to have another online page, - about the intensity of electron antineutrino, registered at neutrino observatories.

I think that contemporary earthquakes and volcanoes have no any connection to the collapse of matter at dangerous objects, created by LHC. Nevertheless, dangerous objects can initiate global earthquakes and volcanoes, but that will happen only after 90-95% of time, needed by object in order to explode the Earth.

But the existence of dangerous objects can be registered much earlier by the growing flux of electron antineutrino from the center of the Earth. I think it can be registered at 50-60% of time, needed by object in order to explode the Earth.

For example, if the total time from birth to explosion is 1000 days, then at 500-th - 600-th day the excess of antineutrino can be already registered. At 900 – 950-th day the activity of earthquakes and volcanoes will began to grow drastically.

If the total time of dangerous object’s growth is 100 (or 10) days, - divide the upper values by 10 (100) times.

Uncertainty of object’s growth time from 10^-23 kg to 10^23 kg is connected by many causes.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by CharmQuark » Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:03 pm

Ivan :D

Where is this icy comet gonna take us????????????? and why are you still so worried? what happened to you being happy? :cry:
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted with large ones either by Albert Einstein.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by Stephen » Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:24 am

MagneticTrap wrote: But the existence of dangerous objects can be registered much earlier by the growing flux of electron antineutrino from the center of the Earth. I think it can be registered at 50-60% of time, needed by object in order to explode the Earth.

For example, if the total time from birth to explosion is 1000 days, then at 500-th - 600-th day the excess of antineutrino can be already registered. At 900 – 950-th day the activity of earthquakes and volcanoes will began to grow drastically.
Can you explain to me your reasoning for connecting the intensity of electron antineutrinos to magnetic traps?

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by MagneticTrap » Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:59 am

Stephen wrote:
MagneticTrap wrote: But the existence of dangerous objects can be registered much earlier by the growing flux of electron antineutrino from the center of the Earth. I think it can be registered at 50-60% of time, needed by object in order to explode the Earth.

For example, if the total time from birth to explosion is 1000 days, then at 500-th - 600-th day the excess of antineutrino can be already registered. At 900 – 950-th day the activity of earthquakes and volcanoes will began to grow drastically.
Can you explain to me your reasoning for connecting the intensity of electron antineutrinos to magnetic traps?
The energy output of growing dangerous object is approximately proportional to its mass. Its mass will grow from the birth mass, 10^-23 kg, to explosion mass, 10^23 kg. If the law of growth is an ideal exponent, and, if the total time of growth is counted by days (or hundreds of days), then the measurable power is in the middle of this diapason (10^-23 kg - 10^23 kg), i.e. at 1 kg per the period of 10-fold growth.

If the dangerous object is a magnetic hole, then: protons are captured by magnetic hole, ejecting positrons; matter will have an excess of neutrons; neutrons or neutron-excessive nuclei will decay; such decays will be accompanied by electron antineutrino ejection.

If the dangerous object is a droplet of strange matter, then the collapse of matter will be accompanied by the ejection of different types of neutrinos and antineutrinos.

At the final part of the dangerous object’s growth a huge amount of neutrino will penetrate everybody of us. The flux will be so big, that it will lead to some nuclear reactions in our cells. If the total time of dangerous object is big (about 1000 seconds) then we all can be able to feel what radiation sickness is.

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