Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

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Stephen
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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by Stephen » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:49 pm

Ivan, do you think the fireball seen in midwestern US was indeed the result of a meteorite shower?
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TECH/04/15/ ... tml?hpt=P1

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by chelle » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:11 pm

CharmQuark wrote:Our we still talking about Ivans?
Yes, and I think that he is right, because ...
MagneticTrap wrote:
Droplets of strange matter can be considered as subnuclear FDC.
Isn't strange-matter made up out of 4 quarks or so, while Fermi-gas is just an atom transformed into a collection of non-interacting fermions.
Super dense droplet of strange matter is a subnuclear Fermi-Dirac Condensate. ...
So, the probability of Earth explosion, initiated by LHC, is very big.

Nuclear physicists are all criminals now. They know this explosion possibility, but continue their crazy experiments. To be useful to civilization, the nuclear physics must be returned into the field of their energies, measured in MeV units, which is by 1 000 000 times smaller than TeV.
... if you look at it from the perspective of magnetism it is evident to say that the LHC is an hazard to our existence. Every particle has magnetic properties; look at those deflected by the detectors and BEC that is kept in a magnetic-trap.

Strange events have already surfaced when pushing research into the extreme:
  1. • Heat: Atoms have been fused into Fireballs that Vaporize
  • • Cold: Bose-nova's of exploding Bose-Enstein Condensate
This means that when energy thresholds are passed matter stops to behave normal, and starts to (inter)react. So there is no other way than to say that there are previously unknown energy mechanisms in protons.

From the look of it, it could be that protons are like a "drafting" mechanism, in a sea of particles, where the configuration of 3 quarks has a bigger and almost endless existence:

Image
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drafting_(aerodynamics)

Where adding energy from the one direction, will cause it to slow (cool) down and adding energy from the opposite site can cause the proton to speed up. Joined and synchronous groups could be formed as well.

Anyway, fact is: both entities have magnetic properties, Plasma balls have a rotation value and probably generate a magnetic field, whereas Bosenova's explode when the magnetic field is changed.

Image

This means that an array of Fireballs can have internal and create external magnetic fields, giving rise to a lot of unexpected phenomena. And possible chain-reactions and explosions, when latices of high energised matter hot or cold, start to combust.

Image

The only excuse to continue these experiments is to say that cosmic rays have the same energy and are harmless. This is abolute nonsense, as I've asked an expert:

I'm searching for frequency numbers of primary cosmic ray collisions with our troposphere, and the particle densities they generate. So it is possible to make a comparison to the particle densities at the LHC, where proton-beams with a distance of 7,48 m between them, and a speed of 299792455 m/s give rise to about 600 millions collision/s, within a nano-metric spot in one room.

And got this answer:

A good overview graph showing the cosmic ray flux as a function of energy can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_ray

Look at the first plot on the right. It shows a graph of flux, measured in number of particles per square meter per second per steradian per GeV (10^9 eV), on the vertical axis, versus particle energy, in electron volts, on the horizontal axis. You will see that the largest flux is at low energy (about 10^9 eV), where the flux is about 1000 particles/m^2-s-sr-GeV. That is, in one square meter, looking over the whole upper half of the sky (2 pi = 6.2 sr), in a bandwidth of 1 GeV, one sees 1000 particles every second. That is very small compared to the luminosity of the LHC, which is somewhere around 10^30 collisions per square centimeter per second. The protons in the LHC have an energy of around 3.5 x 10^12 eV (3.5 TeV). Going back to the cosmic ray plot, you see that the flux of particles with energies around 10^12 eV is much lower, around 10^-3, that is, 0.001 particle/m^2-s-sr-GeV, or about 3 particles per square meter per steradian per GeV per *hour*.

--

I agree with Ivan if he says "Nuclear physicists are all criminals now." these experiments are no longer nonchalance, as I first thought. I wish I could hitchhike my way to an other planet, cause the whole lhc is bogus.
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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by chriwi » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:30 pm

Chelle,

you are right when you say, there is aslight chance, but your ideas are so far fetched that I give them only the chance of less than one in a million over the operation time of the LHC.
Since more than one in a million die in most contries every year from trafficaccidens the have not caused you have to consider it dangerous to leave your house at all everyday.
bye

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by chelle » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:53 pm

chriwi wrote:you are right when you say, there is aslight chance, but your ideas are so far fetched that I give them only the chance of less than one in a million over the operation time of the LHC.
Is it far fetched to say that at some point a spray of Fire-plasma-balls, come out of the machine, at a rate of 10^30 per second. And these objects will vaporise, radiate, fuse and/or grow, you tell me what they will do.
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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by chriwi » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:58 pm

Yes it is farfetched, but not impossible.
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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by chelle » Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:24 pm

chriwi wrote:Yes it is farfetched, but not impossible.
If you drive trough a community at 80 km/h it is far fetched that you are going to kill someone that particular moment, non the less its a criminal act, because it is possible.
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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by Kasuha » Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:26 pm

One to million is huge overestimation.
The worst thing that can even theoretically happen in LHC is that all beam energy will get concentrated to a single point at collision point, melting the beam pipe, damaging the experiment and making a small lava puddle that will slowly cool down. Oh and that lava will probably be also slightly radioactive but far below the radioactivity of regular beam dump.
Anything above that is inventing a zero-point energy machine.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by tswsl1989 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:57 pm

Chelle wrote:...Where adding energy from the one direction, will cause it to slow (cool) down and adding energy from the opposite site can cause the proton to speed up.
Utter nonsense. Adding energy to a particle does not and can not cool it down. Adding energy to it will increase it's temperature, i.e it heats it up.
T == dE/dS (T = temperature, E = energy, S = Entropy)

Basic Thermodynamics.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by chelle » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:18 pm

tswsl1989 wrote:
Chelle wrote:...Where adding energy from the one direction, will cause it to slow (cool) down and adding energy from the opposite site can cause the proton to speed up.
Utter nonsense. Adding energy to a particle does not and can not cool it down. Adding energy to it will increase it's temperature, i.e it heats it up.
T == dE/dS (T = temperature, E = energy, S = Entropy)

Basic Thermodynamics.
Yes Basic, but how many times (1,2) do I have to post this before you guys get it:

"Physicists knew that at atomic scales over very short periods of time, statistical mechanics is pushed beyond its limit, and the second law does not apply. Put another way, situations that break the second law become much more probable." Second law of thermodynamics "broken"
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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by tswsl1989 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:51 pm

OK, so entropy can be negative for short periods. Nothing new.
Note that *in that article* it points out that that gave energy transfer to the beam, *making the beam hotter*
The energy -> temperature link is the same, merely that the direction can be the wrong way round for short periods. You're still not going to cool something with a particle beam.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by chelle » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:04 pm

tswsl1989 wrote:You're still not going to cool something with a particle beam.
Not with the beam itself, but the stuff that radiates out of the collisions. It's all about one force slowing down an other, just like the powder coming out of a fire extinguisher can end a combustion. The radiation coming out plasma balls could be so fine that it cools the surrounding matter, giving rise to BEC, as it is done with laser cooling and photons, or when pumped phonons are used.

Image
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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by Kasuha » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:19 pm

In laser cooling, the colling happens after the photon is transmitted again not before that. And it's because the transmitted photon has higher energy than the absorbed one.
Plus, it all happens in precisely controlled environment. Expecting this to appear spontaneously is like waiting till chaotic motion of molecules in your legs will send you flying.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by chelle » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:53 pm

Kasuha wrote:In laser cooling, the colling happens after the photon is transmitted again not before that. And it's because the transmitted photon has higher energy than the absorbed one.
Correct, Fireballs emit radiation, others particles absorb radiation, up and down, up and down, and we are rolling. btw the two types of radiation don't mingle.
Kasuha wrote:Plus, it all happens in precisely controlled environment.
True, but for an array of Fireballs, a doubler effects could be possible, where condesate can be collected. http://www.colorado.edu/physics/2000/bec/lascool4.html
Kasuha wrote:Expecting this to appear spontaneously is like waiting till chaotic motion of molecules in your legs will send you flying.
The unbelievable tiny sting of a mosquito can give you spontaneously an infection that will give you cold fever, progressing extremely rapidly and cause death within hours or days. May I point out that as long as there is no sting there is no disease.
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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by llo » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:32 pm

Chelle wrote:
Kasuha wrote:Expecting this to appear spontaneously is like waiting till chaotic motion of molecules in your legs will send you flying.
The unbelievable tiny sting of a mosquito can give you spontaneously an infection that will give you cold fever, progressing extremely rapidly and cause death within hours or days. May I point out that as long as there is no sting there is no disease.
Mosquito's cause disease, so maybe LHC will tap into some kind of macro scale negative entropy. Fascinating argument. ;-)
Last edited by llo on Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by chelle » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:51 pm

llo wrote:... so maybe LHC will tap into some kind of macro scale negative entropy.
I bet she will.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVaHG_QMvNk
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